AICN Shocker!!!!
The first non-RD site to pick up on the latest RD movie news? Looks like it, to us. And I shouldn't be so unfair with our headline; the article is in stark contast to the usual AICN shit writing.
Nonetheless:
"Last week, the FAQ on reddwarf.co.uk was saying that shooting was planned to start in May 2004, but this week it was updated to say that pre-production will begin in July and shooting is planned for January 2005. But if shooting had recently been planned to start in May 2004, shouldn't all the pre-production be done already? It's not like they've had anything better to do in the meantime."
The funding had fallen through; and until you have funding, you can't tie everyone down in order to form a team. This is part of pre-production. Of course, you could argue that GNP should keep us all updated; but this is pretty impossible when talking about behind-the-scenes financial machinations. As for not having anything better to do: how about a) trying to secure movie funding, and b) doing fantastic DVD releases?
"...the script it written, rehearsals have been videotaped to gauge the pace of the story and I had even seen some storyboards! (Isn't most of that stuff pre-production?)"
Yes. The Movie Crew Information page does say "pre-production proper", though; presumably it means the whole thing is planned to move into a higher gear. (Interestingly, the wording of the page doesn't definitely say shooting will begin in January; merely that it's slated. But it does seem pretty certain about the pre-production phase, which is interesting.)
"I just wonder why it is so difficult to put new "Dwarf" together? I mean, in some form or another, it has been possible to bring about new versions of "Farscape", "Firefly", "Battlestar Galactica", and "Doctor Who"."
The answer obviously is money; and as to why the others could get funding, they are either American, or have a higher profile in America. So it's far easier to get funding for them. Still, hopefully the continuing success of the RD DVD releases will swing things.
"But should I be bothered? After all, everyone knows that any new Red Dwarf will be crap."
"I just wish they'd make a two hour TV movie to finish off the annoying "like smeg it is" conclusion to Series VIII and get the crew home in one form or another."
Correct. Is there anyone out there who thinks that ending is actually any good? I personally would love a TV movie or another series (and it looks like Chris Barrie does too); but I can't see it happening. Pet idea time, even though I've done it before: in the third or fourth movie, the Dwarfers should enter a parallel universe that happenes to be the TV one, and resolve that story in a hilarious throwaway manner. After all, Doug has said he might resolve the story in "another medium"...
"And I say this as someone whose favourite television of all time is probably "Red Dwarf" during Series III-VI."
The first two series are great, you fucker. Although you're correct about VI, and anyone who hates it is a loony. Oh come on, you don't think I'd resist a chance to shove that opinion in, do you?
More interesting that all this perhaps, is that we don't know of any other online sites (apart from the RD ones, obviously) have picked up on this latest bit of news. Laziness? More likely apathy, sadly, with the constant breaking of dates. You can see why TOS didn't do a news story on it...
Comments
I actually DO like the ending to series VIII.
If you look at it as an ending...and sort of disregard the "smeg it is" bit. The Rimmer / Death thing pissed me off when I first saw it...and probably the first few times...but now I really enjoy it. It jibes quite nicely with the advice he gave Lister in Future Echoes...well, jibe isn't the right word because he gave conflicting advice, but he's Rimmer. So I kind of like that he "whacked death on the head."
Just the wrong head.
Posted by Phil at May 30, 2004 02:34 AM
Agreed, it would be far better without the caption. I really don't know how that caption actually made it onto the screen. The actual death stuff doesn't annoy me so much as just make me go "WHAT?"
I still like the idea of Ace Rimmer coming back. As has been said before, it sounds such a shit idea; but when you remember that it would effectively mean the bringing back of *our* Rimmer, it could have had a rather wonderful emotional context.
Posted by John Hoare at May 30, 2004 02:39 AM
I just remember reading the description of Earth (on this very site, not long ago, I think), and realising what a fantastic ending it could have been, and how it would have redeemed everything that was wrong with Series VIII.
I mean, they might still have buggered it up, but it would have been nice to see them try. The only way Red Dwarf can ever truly end is if they get back to Earth. Um. Unless you're reading the novels.
Posted by Seb at May 30, 2004 02:57 AM
I would be pissed off for the rest tof my life if Red Dwarf doesn't come to some sort of END. That might seem like I hate the show, but it isn't.
I want to see Lister get back to Earth. I have this image of Kryten living forever and being present a funerals and births of Lister's grandkids you know?
But in my view everything that has happened in the last eight series complicates things.
Is it a possibility that the events of Stasis Leak and Future Echoes are all void because of the events of Out of Time? And if Lister is a 178 year old (Give or take a few decades) in Future Echoes ON BOARD Red Dwarf, how does he get back?
And then Kochanski and Dave are still to put Little Dave under the pool table - '15 months after Ouroborous' - an everything is like a continuity mine field.
Hopefully all that 'Garbage World' crap from the BTL novel doesn't come true - that was one big disappointment.
But what was Stasis Leak actually suggesting? Kochanski goes off and dies on Red Dwarf?
Posted by Rad at May 30, 2004 01:50 PM
The end of 'Last Human' is utterly brilliant. i would lvoe to see that trabnslated onto the screen. What we should assume is that the movie will not have closure as Doug is saying a 2nd or a 3rd will be possible if the 1st is a success.
The garbage World stuff was brilliant, though. Something else I'd like to see on screen.
Posted by Cappsy at May 30, 2004 02:03 PM
La Terre, z'ero points.
Classic!
Posted by Pete Martin at May 30, 2004 03:43 PM
I expect that any movies will be completely self-contained with no reference or relevance to all 8 series. Yes, it would be good for parts of the novels to end up on screen, but maybe Doug wouldn't want to do that. However, I think if people are expecting the Dwarf they know and love to end up on screen they better think again.
Dwarf is a sitcom. You can't make a movie that resembles a sitcom or else it will fall flat on it's face. Series VII is the closest we've come to what the movie will be like (it was done in that way to help the cast and crew get used to making Dwarf in a more filmic way, without the audience and using enclosed sets and single camera.).
If the end of Series VIII isn't cleared up at some stage there will be a lot of disappointed people. A feature-length TV episode would be ideal for this. However, I don't think the BBC would like it, mainly because they've got Doctor Who coming back. Granted, Who is going to be a pure sci-fi drama, but it's still BIG sci-fi for the BBC. They would most likely prefer any new Dwarf to be pure sitcom, which might rule out a satisfying conclusion to 'the smeg it is'.
Anyway, if the movie DOES shoot and is successful there might be another. This would rule out new TV stuff for a long long time. Personally, I don't know whether I would prefer the movie or a new series. I can see Doug being reluctant to write a full series. Although, if they don't shoot until January next year that gives him plenty of time to write it...
Posted by overmydeadbody at May 30, 2004 08:09 PM
I'd rather have a new series. I think.
Posted by Cappsy at May 30, 2004 11:34 PM
...erm...
I think I would. I never even thought about it before. But yes, I'd rather have another series.
Not that I'm not looking forward to the movie, but...
Posted by John Hoare at May 30, 2004 11:43 PM
If the movie was done well, I would prefer a movie. If it wasn't going to be good, I'd prefer a TV series. In a TV series you don't necessarily have to follow a crap plot through an hour and a half (though for Back in the Red Doug seemed to want to do just that) - but the possibilities of Red Dwarf on the big screen are too good to pass up. I think so, anyway.
Posted by Austin Ross at May 31, 2004 01:03 AM
Red Dwarf, the Tv Show is dead. I can't see any decent way that Doug can get himself out of the hole he's doug (!).
Long live the movies.
(Having said that, I'm quite pished at the momento so what the duck -yes, duck- do I know?)
Posted by Pete Martin at May 31, 2004 02:38 AM
There's been so much conjecture and fannying around as regards the film for so long now that I'd be disappointed if it didn't get made (See also HHGG) especially since I agree that The Movie Will Be Good.
I'd be disappointed if the TV story didn't get finished off as well though, and I'd much rather that was done on TV, a special/TV movie would be better than another (crap) series. 'Other media' suggests that Doug might want to write another novel that follows on from Only the Good and I can't see that being any good. I agree that Red Dwarf should end properly somehow, on the telly.
Posted by clem at May 31, 2004 03:47 PM
This is a little offtopic, but is in response to what Rad said.
I like to think that the future events we have already seen are still going to happen. After all, (apart from Out of Time and Tikka to Ride) Red Dwarf time travel storys seem to be consistent in saying that the future is set and unchangable. I might not like VIII much but it is still possible to fit into the timeline.
Basically, they all get back onto Red Dwarf, and set a course back towards the Solar System, with the aim of making Red Dwarf a multigenerational vessel that the crews descendents will someday get home on.
At some point Lister and Kochanski create baby Lister and send him back in time to complete the Ouroborous time loop.
Then, a little later, Lister goes back in time to get married to Kochanski. He intends to stay with her and save her life until it becomes apparent that any attempt to do so would muck up the timeline and prevent Lister from being stuck in Stasis, therefore destroying the entire future of the human and cat races. He doesn't tell past Kochanski that she is going to die and returns to the future when she reboards Red Dwarf.
Further down the road, Listers sons come back from the Parallel Universe, with the console exploding death seen in Future Echoes occuring soon after.
Move a half century or so further down the line and Red Dwarf is still powering its way towards Earth, with the elderly crew and their descendents manning it. Elderly Lister is still around to give himself the message from Future Echoes.
It's a little messy, but it's still relatively easy for all the time manipulations to fit together nicely. :)
Posted by Adam Bailey at June 3, 2004 07:25 PM
"At some point Lister and Kochanski create baby Lister and send him back in time to complete the Ouroborous time loop."
Lister has already done this. See the end of Ouroboros for confirmation of this.
You get a little caption saying "18 months later" and Lister gives the kid a little talk before he puts him under the table and the episode finishes.
Posted by Cappsy at June 3, 2004 07:58 PM
Well technically they haven't done that yet since I don't think 18 months is meant to have progressed between Ouroboros and the beginning of VIII, and while they were in prison they were in no position to send baby Lister back in time.
Although I do admit that I like the "18 months later" caption on a scene which is meant to have occurred 3 MILLION YEARS before the rest of the episode. :)
Posted by Adam Bailey at June 6, 2004 07:46 PM
What I never understood was who were the parents of the Dave Lister in Kochanski's dimension...
18 months MUST have passed from the "bit-before-the-end of Ouroborus" and the start of Series VIII because you have to take into account Starbug travelling back 200 years to the place they left the Dwarf in Nanarchy.
To be honest, I hate the whole "I'm my own dad" storyline. It's not original and totally pointless. Ouroborus was the worst episode of Red Dwarf. Until Red Dwarf VIII came along.
Posted by Pete Martin at June 6, 2004 11:42 PM
"Then, a little later, Lister goes back in time to get married to Kochanski. He intends to stay with her and save her life until it becomes apparent that any attempt to do so would muck up the timeline and prevent Lister from being stuck in Stasis, therefore destroying the entire future of the human and cat races. He doesn't tell past Kochanski that she is going to die and returns to the future when she reboards Red Dwarf."
It wouldn't muck things up if he took her back with him to his own time. The "Ouroborus" way of time-travelling, rather than the "Status Leak" way. Saving her wouldn't prevent him going into status. She would just have gone missing before the accident, and nothing we've heard says she didn't.
"To be honest, I hate the whole "I'm my own dad" storyline. It's not original and totally pointless."
Not only that, impossible. Not in the same way that time travel is impossible, either.
"18 months MUST have passed from the "bit-before-the-end of Ouroborus" and the start of Series VIII because you have to take into account Starbug travelling back 200 years to the place they left the Dwarf in Nanarchy."
The 200 years passing here and there thing is daft. Why do they only ever go into status when they have a particular known block of time to pass? The whole scenario is pointless if you consider that Lister and co will die before they return to earth if they take the 3,000,000 year route. Assuming that that is still the ultimate reason for their travels (they've not done or said anything to suggest that's not the case, and surely they would make it a mission out of curiosity even if it wasn't *that* important anymore. Until they just drop by earth and decide that they don't want to stay there after all, the bouncing around in space is just the passing of time as far as I'm concerned), why don't they just all go into status now if they have to take the long route, or time travel if they don't? Basically the longer they drag out the series, and the more ways they have of returning to earth that they just don't bother using, the more pointless Red Dwarf itself will become. In the same way that having Kochanski on board undermines the basic premise of the show - last human alive, men alone on the ship - without even a blink of recognition from the makers of the programme that this has happened, or was deliberate. (Lister desperately wanted Kochanski as on board during Balance of Power - what happened? So she looks different to us, but he immediately recognised her all the same.)
Anyway, lunch for me.
Posted by jesley carrion at June 8, 2004 01:16 PM
"The "Ouroborus" way of time-travelling, rather than the "Status Leak" way."
I don't have to say I mean "Stasis Leak", do I?
Posted by jesley carrion at June 8, 2004 01:17 PM
No, I pretty much worked that out.
"The Ouroborus way of time-travelling", as you call it, is one of a three different theories regarding time-travel.
Although the "man whose family tree begins and ends with himself" sounds totally implausible it hasn't been completely rubished by all scientists and is called "The princple of self-consistency.
To verify, this is the theory that states that it impossible to change the past, because you were always part of it. At first glance, this doesn't seem to allow for paradoxes such as Dave Lister's confused parentage but scientist Igor Novikov got over this by coining the term "jinn" : something with a closed world line - no begininng, no end. Ouroborus, if you will.
Of course, the problem with Red Dwarf is that it uses so many different time travel rules that it all gets a bit confusing. As you point out, the rules in Ouroborus are completely different to the ones in Stasis Leak.
Three good books with articles on the subject :
"Time Travel in Einstein's Universe" by Richard Gott. (Contains many references to movies so it doesn't get bogged down in jargon)
"How to Build a Time Machine" by Paul Davies (Short but easy to understand)
"Hyperspace: A Scientific Odyssey Through Parallel Universes, Time Warps and the Tenth Dimension" by Michio Kaku (A lot of subjects covered in reasonably simple ways)
Available through Amazon and all good book shops. And some really bad ones too :}
Posted by Pete Martin at June 8, 2004 06:15 PM
"To verify, this is the theory that states that it impossible to change the past, because you were always part of it."
I actually *only* accept this theory of time travel, and get annoyed with all others. Hence finding Bill & Ted, Twelve Monkeys the first Terminator film and "Future Echoes" good, and Back to the Futures, Terminator 2, and "Time Slides" bad. It bugs me when programmes seem to "correct" themselves from one theory to another. Dr Who did this, distinctively stating early on that history would happen exactly as it was written no matter what you did with it, only to change history several times later in its run.
Posted by jesley carrion at June 9, 2004 10:44 AM
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