Ganymede & Titan

Ian's Newsround - 13/05/05

Friday the 13th is unlucky for some, but us Dwarf fans are feeling particularly lucky today. For it has been revealed that the Series VII and VIII DVD sets will comprise of a whopping three discs each! Wahey!

And, according to the article, "we'll need every inch of space". Could this mean they'll break the record of about 200 minutes' worth of extras each? I bloody well hope so. This is great news, and I'm rather excited. Not only that, but Series VII will contain both the original and Xtended versions of three episodes! Hurrah! I was worried that they'd only have the Xtended versions, which would abandon the ethos of only having the broadcast versions. That would have been a bit of a shame after going to the effort to ensure that Parallel Universe, Backwards and Polymorph were the correct versions.

And! And! Series VIII will have the broadcast multi-part edits and full-length versions of Back In The Red and Pete! Yes! I'm really looking forward to seeing these as they were originally envisioned. You never know, they might actually be quite good. We still don't know if they will be as originally envisioned, though - for example, will Back In The Red be an hour long, or will they simply chop out all the titles and "Captain's Log" bits out of it, leaving in all the extra stuff that was written for Part Three? I hope it's the former, as the episode might be half-decent in that state. Either way, it's bloody exciting.

Also in this update - billed as the main news, but it really isn't - mock-ups of the VII and VIII cover art. No surprises in terms of what the background will be based on, as it's been hinted at for years. It's nice that our bit of guesswork from sixteen months ago has been confirmed, though. We could have guessed the Rimmer/Lister pictures on the front and all. Gah, I hate that Series VIII one. I'm a bit surprised about the choice of back cover picture for VIII, though - I was expecting that shot of the five of them in Canaries (Contrived And Needlessly Asinine Reason for Inmates to Explore Space) get-up. And finally, Hollister on the Series VIII spine is fair enough - he probably gets more screen time in the series than Cat, Kochanski and Holly do.

This all goes to confirm that the DVDs will be worth getting, regardless of your opinion on the series. Three discs, man! Plus, there's a chance that one of them will include MY FACE.

Comments

From the TOS Board:

"Just to be clear, nothing will be cut from BITR or Pete
- they'll just lose the recaps and other waffle. Which
may mean they are equal-*true* to the original
versions.

There may be more interesting stuff with BITR still to
come - but it's only been discussed today, so no
decision as yet...

Andrew

Website Co-ordinator
www.reddwarf.co.uk"

So, it looks like BITR and Pete will just lose the recaps and credits between episodes. Which is still better nothing, to be honest. I NEVER want to hear Hollister admit to being Dennis the Fucking Donut Boy ever again!

By Cappsy on 13-05-05 @ 15:59

> I NEVER want to hear Hollister admit to being Dennis the Fucking Donut Boy ever again!

I liked that bit. I also like the Rimmer/Lister picture on the front of VIII. I AM NOT A TRUE FAN OBVIOUSLY.

Still, the recaps were in general a waste of time.

To be honest, I wouldn't have been that fussed if the Xtended versions hadn't been on there (and just been in the deleted scenes) - although I'm pleased to have them, as there's room. It's more the lack of laugh track that's I find interesting, as the other stuff will be in the deleted scenes anyway. (I can't imagine that GNP were *ever* going to just put the Xtended versions on - they've been too faithful to the broadcast versions so far to chuck that away.)

As for the "interesting stuff with BITR" - ooh. I really would have liked all the extra stuff that was shot to have been cut, and it to be reedited into what was in the original 1-hour script, so it's a bit of a shame that won't happen. Still, what about this from Time Hole:

"Mel also constructed two AR suites - one shown, one not. The 'other' set was part of the original, one-hour BITR story and was a somewhat more dream-like affair with the crew laid out on tables. The set shown was a more organic, industrial, almost nightmarish creation with the Dwarfers stood in their unconscious state and controlling their AR actions by joysticks."

Obviously, the other AR scene(s) will be in the deleted scenes - but I wonder if stuff like this will be edited in, or something? But then, if it was part of the original story, perhaps it wouldn't fit in with all the extra stuff shot for Part Three...

SO MANY QUESTIONS.

By John Hoare on 13-05-05 @ 16:21

Let's not get too excited about these 'new' edits. BITR will still be a meandering mess of pychotropic dream sequences, Quentin Tarantino tributes (why?) and a dance sequence that might just be the worst thing about anything. Ever. A couple of sequences that didn't make the grade and absent recaps aren't going to change that.

Kind of the same thoughts about VII. The Extended video wasn't exactly jaw-dropping stuff and while the laugh track on VII was dreadful it's better than the pregnant pauses the cast leave in these edits. Why not just stick them down as what they are; deleted scenes?

Enough whining. I'm sure the extras will be lovely...and what lovely covers; the purple VII works really well and VIII, which looks rather like VI in that pic admittedly, is also pretty dandy.

By Pete Martin on 13-05-05 @ 16:41

"As for the "interesting stuff with BITR" - ooh. I really would have liked all the extra stuff that was shot to have been cut, and it to be reedited into what was in the original 1-hour script, so it's a bit of a shame that won't happen"

Andrew has mentioned over on the TOS Board that there's actually some stuff in that original one hour script that wasn't even shot. Bah.

I'm currently nursing a theory that we'll get the script on the DVD, though. God, I hope so.

By Cappsy on 13-05-05 @ 17:03

> Andrew has mentioned over on the TOS Board that there's actually some stuff in that original one hour script that wasn't even shot. Bah.

Damn.

> I'm currently nursing a theory that we'll get the script on the DVD, though. God, I hope so.

Ooooh! Yes! That would be brilliant! And I can't see any reason why they couldn't stick it on there, either...

By John Hoare on 13-05-05 @ 17:06

"Ooooh! Yes! That would be brilliant! And I can't see any reason why they couldn't stick it on there, either..."

IT would be fab.

It's very quickly getting to the point where my two least favourite series are going to be part of the most fascinating DVD releases yet!

By Cappsy on 13-05-05 @ 17:13

Much as I have many, many problems with VIII, the deleted scenes especially will be *fascinating*.

Both because there will be funny stuff in there, but also because so much stuff was reshot. And remember that TOS said that one scene was reshot, and then they used the original instead?

Juicy underwear time.

By John Hoare on 13-05-05 @ 17:15

Indeed. I'm looking forward to these DVDs almost as much as the first six.
By the way, has anybody else been watching The Munsters on BBC2 weekday mornings? My new favourite way of wasting time is playing spot the Krytenisms. Or the Hermanisms in Red Dwarf, I suppose. Anyway, 3 discs per series!

By Paul on 13-05-05 @ 17:30

I think they should have had Rimmer on the spine. From series 1 I always thought that's what they were going to do (so did they, probably). However, it would look like bringing the series to a close, and I'm still holding out for series IX & X DVDs one day.............

As for BITR, I'm glad they're cutting it together. I hope there are SOME extra cuts other than the recaps/credits. But I suppose it'd be Doug's decision what got cut out/put back in, if anything. Pete, I just don't want to watch anyway. So I assume these episodes will be on the third disc, the same applying to the Xtendeds in the VII set. The lack of laughter on those is godawful, but also more realistic (I mean, what the fuck is there to laugh at?? he he). Both series should've been a lot better. I hope the extras make up for it. If it wasn't nearly a decade since VII, maybe the cast could have gone back and recorded some extra scenes (or episodes) that were good.

Question - should a film effect be added to VIII? And the VII film effect redone to be better?

By performingmonkey on 13-05-05 @ 18:53

> Question - should a film effect be added to VIII?

No. Apart from anything else, the lighting wasn't designed to have a film effect applied to it, so it wouldn't look very good. (Partly the reason I-III Re-mastered didn't look very good.)

> And the VII film effect redone to be better?

I know others think differently, including some people I'm sure are more technically knowledgable than me, but I actually think VII's film effect looks very good. (Whether it's suitable for the show is a different question.)

By John Hoare on 13-05-05 @ 18:57

The words "very good" three times whilst talking about VII/VIII, there.

By John Hoare on 13-05-05 @ 18:58

From Andrew on the Webboard:

------------------------------------------------

There's a myth that there's some 'one hour special'
version on a tape somewhere. There isn't. The initial
cut of BITR was well over that time already, and even
as it was being cut down, new scenes were being
filmed to better fit it to three eps.

Not all the new scenes were in part three, either.
Rimmer's salute, Lister's escape with the luck virus,
and others, were part of the reshoot. The only 'one
hour' version that exists is in script form, but that -
as I say - was too long even then. Much of BITR's
deleted scenes would, technically, belong to this 'one
hour' version.

So to make up this mythic version we'd actually have
to delete some key plot scenes and add cut material!
------------------------------------------------

That doesn't suggest to me that parts of the original 1-hour weren't even shot. What it suggests is that the 1-hour version just wasn't edited together. Which I thought we all knew. I certainly haven't seen anyone on here saying it was all edited together.

What I would have liked to have been is it re-edited from scratch into the 1-hour version as per the script, *with* some scenes cut, and others inserted. However, the costs of this for the DVD would be prohibitive, I suspect.

(Incidentally, I knew all the extra stuff shot wasn't in Part Three. I just refer to it as that because that's what the recording of the reshoot is called and dated to on Time Hole.)

Erm, that all reads as a response to Andrew, rather than Cappsy, which it wasn't intended as. But hello if you're there, Andrew :-)

By John Hoare on 13-05-05 @ 20:53

> What I would have liked to have been is it re-edited from scratch into the 1-hour version as per the script, *with* some scenes cut, and others inserted. However, the costs of this for the DVD would be prohibitive, I suspect.

Also: Doug may well like a lot of the reshoot stuff, and so would want it in his preferred cut.

By John Hoare on 13-05-05 @ 21:02

One of the series should be a four-disc set.

Because when Andrew sees our film he's going to want to give us A DISC TO OURSELVES for our making of, deleted scenes and general twattish pissing about. Clearly.

By Seb on 13-05-05 @ 21:28

Oh yes, that's what I need to do tomorrow evening.

By Mr Flibble on 13-05-05 @ 23:20

Right - last bit of pasting from the Webboard:


-------------------------------------------

On 13/05/2005 4:57:50 PM, Jonathan Capps wrote:
>Ahh, I see now. I never realised that
>the one hour special had unshot scenes,
>so I was working off the assumption that
>you could re-edit the existing stuff to
>mock up the special. What you propose
>still sounds super, though.

Oh cappsy, my Cappsy - still interpreting what I've said!

A stack of changed lines aside, the script was filmed, but
several scenes were re-shot when it became clear that
they didn't quite work for plot reasons or performance
reasons, or whatever.

Which is to say that these would have been changed
ANYWAY, regardless of further shooting to extend the ep.
Because reshoots on Dwarf (as V and VI's deleted scenbes
show) are par for the course.

So, essentially, reconstructing a one-hour version of BITR
would require us taking inferior versions of scenes and
using them instead of the better versions, just to slavishly
adhere to an old draft. Something we can't really justify
spending edit-type money on!

>Can I take a guess that this extra
>'special' thing you're talking about
>could well be including the one hour
>script (complete with unshot material)
>on the DVD?

Given what I've just said about 'unshot material', you can
guess all you like - but no, it won't be the BITR script.

One thing I should do at some point is break down the ep
into 'original', 'reshot' and 'newly filmed' scenes - I
imagine it'd be of interest to...well, about three people. :-)

Andrew

Website Co-ordinator
www.reddwarf.co.uk

-------------------------------------------

So I was actually right, more or less.

This is a first.

By John Hoare on 13-05-05 @ 23:50

I've got a copy of the shooting script that says "Back In The Red - Part Three" on the front. It contains all the newly-shot padding for all three parts when the decision was made to make it a three-parter. So, I could beat Ellard to it, in part, with a list of all the stuff that was newly-shot.

That is, I could if the script wasn't in Birmingham, where I won't be going to until next month.

By Ian Symes on 14-05-05 @ 02:42

> Gah, I hate that Series VIII one.

Agreed. To borrow a line from Red Vs Blue, it's "like someone threw up and decided to call it a colour". But I like the Series VII one. Very nice.

> And finally, Hollister on the Series VIII spine is fair enough - he probably gets
> more screen time in the series than Cat, Kochanski and Holly do.

Permission to shout "I KNEW IT!!!" at an annoyingly loud volume, sir.

By antipodean on 14-05-05 @ 04:57

A thought: when the last of the ordinary-style DVDs are released, d'you reckon they should release the Remastereds in a DVD boxset?

Say, four DVDs. One per series, including commentaries (this time by people in the crew, though, not the cast), and one DVD of extras.

By antipodean on 14-05-05 @ 05:04

> A thought: when the last of the ordinary-style DVDs are released, d'you reckon they should release the Remastereds in a DVD boxset?

NO

By Ian Symes on 14-05-05 @ 05:36

(picture this in a Sly Stallone-type voice:)

I KNEW you'd say that.

By antipodean on 14-05-05 @ 06:27

If the Re-mastereds were accompanied by lots of extra material though, I'd buy it. Even if he episoes themselves can piss the cunt off.

For instance, a rather large documentary for Series' 1 and 2 in the style of 'All Change' etc, would make it worth buying alone.

By John Hoare on 14-05-05 @ 09:28

>This all goes to confirm that the DVDs will be worth getting, regardless of your opinion on the series.
>Three discs, man! Plus, there's a chance that one of them will include MY FACE.

Give with one hand, take with the other.

By si on 14-05-05 @ 13:27

"Something we can't really justify
spending edit-type money on!"

Ellard, give me the rushes and the original script and I'll edit BITR into its just-over-one-hour version for FREE and without you needing to credit me on the DVDs.

Yes I'm serious. And I'll do a good job.

By My Home Number on 16-05-05 @ 13:48

Thing is, though - it wouldn't make much sense. And this is from someone who *really* wanted to see the one hour version.

As I said above, the one-hour version would contain lots of inferior scenes that needed to be reshot - exactly like past series of Dwarf (especially V, with Juliet May). But by the time they got round to re-recording them, they *knew* that the show would be split into three half-hour episodes. Hence the reshoots proceeded with that in mind.

It would be *impossible* to edit this reshot stuff back into the one hour version, as the story had changed, and it would no longer make sense. So reediting it into a one hour version would produce something that would *never* have been broadcast. Reshoots would have happened anyway, even if it had stuck to the one hour version.

So there really is little point, as an intended-for-broadcast version could never be put together. I'm happy for all the other stuff to be in the deleted scenes.

(I do wish the 1-hour script was going on the DVD though, but Lord Ellard has said it won't be, apparently. A shame.)

By John Hoare on 16-05-05 @ 15:44

Well I still think the one-hour version would be something worth having. I'm sure the original version of the story could be created by using the inferior versions of scenes and using other material that was shot, and leaving other stuff out. I know it won't happen now, so I'm not arguing in that respect. I'm saying that I always imagined the one-hour version would be something like the so-called director's cut of the wicker man, with the quality of footage shifting between scenes. I think this has a value we wouldn't get with just all the moments appearing as deleted scenes on the DVD like footnotes: an edited one-hour version would give the scenes an atmosphere carried over from previous elements of the episode, something you don't get with deleted scenes in isolation.

By My Home Number on 16-05-05 @ 22:10

OK, I can see where you're coming from. It would be interesting. It's just to me, it's not nearly as important any more now I know a broadcastable version couldn't be put together.

Of course, you could always put it together yourself once the DVD comes out, from the deleted scenes. If only the script was to be included. I think that's a sad omission.

By John Hoare on 16-05-05 @ 22:22

Wow - the number of roman numerals for series 8 really makes the cover look lopsided. I know they couldn't do it any other way, but I'm surprised at how it's ended up looking. Four digits is very many.

Red
Dwarf
VIII

I don't like the way Rimmer's head overlaps the silver either. Hope they change this. I'd also like to see the criminal line-up of the cast on the back of the DVD. Glad they didn't choose the naked/bald Lister and Rimmer images for the front though.

And why no skutter on the spine?

By Eine Costacough on 16-05-05 @ 22:31

From Ellard on the Webboard:

---------------------------------------------------

Bit of a cheat, here - saw a post on G&T, thought I'd
respond here, seeing as John and Ian will likely see it and
copy it across anyway. :-)

Here's the quote:

"I'm sure the original version of the story [BITR] could be
created by using the inferior versions of scenes and using
other material that was shot, and leaving other stuff out"

And here's my response:

Maybe. But you have to admit, from a promotion point of
view "Now contains Back In The Red: Reduced - with
inferior scenes and favourite sections removed" doesn't
really have broad sale-ability... :-)

I know there's a hardcore that want the 'one hour' version
but a) it's neither Doug's cut nor the director's; b) it's
costly to edit and regrade when we could spend that
money on...well, you'll see; and c) don't you think the
hardcore already get enough with Raw FX and music cues?

No, me neither.

But disc space and budget is finite. Losing scenes from
BITR to mirror what is, essentially, an old draft, would be
madness. (Also, and correct me if I'm wrong, but most
people requesting this are the same people who don't
actually like BITR very much. Interesting curio or not,
surely a re-edit isn't going to radically change your
opinion?!)

By John Hoare on 17-05-05 @ 02:55

I've already offered to edit BITR for free. Why not put it on the disc as an unadvertised easter egg if its value is so questionable?

By My Home Number on 17-05-05 @ 11:16

"Why not put it on the disc as an unadvertised easter egg if its value is so questionable?"

Because it would take up about 70 minutes of disc space that we don't have.

By Andrew on 17-05-05 @ 11:38

That's the answer I was looking for - thanks. I think I'll just sit still now and make do with a drawing.

By My Home Number on 17-05-05 @ 13:11

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