IT. IS. HERE.
Short version: click here.
Long version: I am proud to announce my marvellous review of the Red Dwarf III DVD. Hopefully, it'll whet the appetites of those who have not yet got the disc, and provoke agreement or arguments with those who have.
Brief spoiler warning: the review gives away a few key details about the deleted scenes and suchlike, and gives instructions as to how to get to all the easter eggs. Some of you might not want to know this, so use caution.
Comments
Excellent, Symes. I'm trying hard to stop myself spending money on it, as I want it for a birthday/Xmas present, but I may well fail.
Posted by Tanya Jones at November 2, 2003 05:07 PM
Not read it, sure its the usual 100% excellent though ;D
Posted by Drzymala at November 2, 2003 05:16 PM
You reviewed the sticker! Excellent.
Posted by M at November 2, 2003 05:29 PM
Excelent review! My mouth is watering, I can't wait for tomorrow! Hopefully RDSUK (hey I'm a cool kid :-P) will deliver tomorrow, or I won't be a happy bunny!
Posted by Bob the Skutter at November 2, 2003 05:41 PM
Excellent stuff. How long did it take you to write? It's very thorough.
BB
Posted by Blake at November 2, 2003 05:49 PM
So there's no "My 'H' has just fallen off" outtake from Marooned then? Bastards.
And just so you know, I never thought the series I and II DVDs were all that great, with regards to extras. I was a bit surprised when everyone raved about them so much. The Spaced DVDs were better, in my opinion, even though they didn't have documentaries. To be honest if the series III hadn't showed them up I would have been utterly disappointed. I wonder whether there is a boxset around the corner with improved series I and II discs (including the picture disc element).
Posted by Interactive Menu Beholder at November 2, 2003 05:52 PM
Bah. I still have four months to wait.
Posted by Austin Ross at November 2, 2003 06:55 PM
Blake - I started at about half twelve today, and finished at 4:26pm. This was after making notes and suchlike all day yesterday.
IMB - "My H has just falled off" is there. As is the "nothing else less to burn" one. The thing is that there's no stuff from Marooned that *wasn't* on Smeg Outs.
Austin - that's what you get for being American. (presumably)
Posted by Ian Symes at November 2, 2003 07:50 PM
Still Havn't got mine yet, awaiting RD.co..But fantastic Review Ian, You mentioned tipping the Balance there, well if anyone had doubts about buying the DVD, They should be well and truly Tipped having read that....
Posted by Cpt-D at November 2, 2003 08:06 PM
Still Havn't got mine yet, awaiting RD.co..But fantastic Review Ian, You mentioned tipping the Balance there, well if anyone had doubts about buying the DVD, They should be well and truly Tipped having read that....
Posted by Cpt-D at November 2, 2003 08:06 PM
Indeed - the point is that the rushes must have existed for Marooned in the mid-nineties, so they got all the Smeg ups for Marooned - but they've since been lost somewhere, so they couldn't get any of the deleted scenes. The one deleted scene was on 'Smeg Outs' - seeing as it was pre-recorded, had effects put on and was completely edited together, it was *probably* on a different tape anyway. (In the unlikely event it was on the same tape, the same argument applies that applies to the Smeg Ups.) I suppose it's possible that the footage on 'Smeg Outs' doesn't come from the original rushes, but from some other tape compiled for another reason - but it seems unlikely to me.
Incidentally, the special effects weren't put on for the Smeg Outs tape, unlike the sound effects in various places; the whole reason it was dropped is that the effects just weren't up to par. The patched together bit of background where Kryten's head should be is awful; and it's amazing that the whole "Kryten's head on a table" stuff is so badly executed compared to Rimmer in Stasis Leak...
Posted by John Hoare at November 2, 2003 08:15 PM
Cool review of the Series 3 DVD. I preordered mine from RDSUK a few months ago, but I never got it early :( If I don't get it Monday morning I'm gonna go to a shop and buy it.
Oh BTW I can't look smug now as I don't even have the DVD :( Did ya actually see me face?
Posted by Paul Gannon at November 2, 2003 08:35 PM
Well I'm ready to throw my cunting disk 2 out of the window! Now only is the restarting of the loop on the bonus menu every time i move the arrow annoying, it also makes it impossible for me to reach the anumated easter egg. On top of that the music cues are fucked up as I only get anout 3/4 the clip played before it stops.
Getting a new copy tomorrow.
Posted by Cappsy at November 2, 2003 08:43 PM
> Did ya actually see me face?
You were wearing a bald cap, but it was definately you.
I don't know whether I should spoilt it for you, if you're going to see it tomorow. But rest assured, I am extraordinarily jealous.
Posted by Ian Symes at November 2, 2003 08:48 PM
How old did I look?
Posted by Paul Gannon at November 2, 2003 09:02 PM
How old are you now?
Posted by Ian Symes at November 2, 2003 09:04 PM
Twenty-five. How old did I look?
Posted by Paul Gannon at November 2, 2003 09:07 PM
Mmmm... mid-twenties.
Posted by Ian Symes at November 2, 2003 09:07 PM
*Smeg*! I'm not ready! I'm not smegging ready!
Posted by Paul Gannon at November 2, 2003 09:10 PM
You did look surprised.
Posted by Ian Symes at November 2, 2003 09:11 PM
OK, we could go on like this all night until we finish the script for that episode, but I'm off to watch Final Destination, see you soon.
Keep up the great work on your site.
Posted by Paul Gannon at November 2, 2003 09:23 PM
I still reckon you doth not protest enough about items/shortcomings that must *surely* irritate you. After all, you're not The General Public - you're Red Dwarf fans, fully entitled to have expectations higher than than your blood pressure!
I'm always a bit troubled by this 'Ah well, mustn't grumble, it was only a cult sitcom made 14 years ago, we can't expect too much' undercurrent. I mean, are you hardcore, passionate Red Dwarf fans or aren't you? If so, don't you think 26 minutes of unused footage is a bit mean for a show where (almost uniquely in comedy) nearly all the rushes survive? Do you really, hand on heart, not feel annoyed at the inclusion of 'Food Featurette'?
Posted by M at November 3, 2003 01:15 AM
Actually, while I'm here, that thing about the BBFC refusing to reclassify an episode in its identical form - I don't understand that, because surely it's quite normal for films to get their rating reviewed over the course of time? The first example off the top of my head is Monty Python's Meaning of Life, recently brought from an 18 down to a 15, despite being exactly the same edit as before. So I don't see what the problem was with 'Marooned'.
Posted by M at November 3, 2003 01:24 AM
> I still reckon you doth not protest enough about items/shortcomings that must *surely* irritate you. After all, you're not The General Public - you're Red Dwarf fans, fully entitled to have expectations higher than than your blood pressure!
So, you're saying that I'm lying about my opinions. Excellent!
> I'm always a bit troubled by this 'Ah well, mustn't grumble, it was only a cult sitcom made 14 years ago, we can't expect too much' undercurrent. I mean, are you hardcore, passionate Red Dwarf fans or aren't you?
And that by being happy with something, I'm not a proper Red Dwarf fan?
> If so, don't you think 26 minutes of unused footage is a bit mean for a show where (almost uniquely in comedy) nearly all the rushes survive?
Maybe, being controversial here, there are only 26 minutes' worth of deleted bits available? They have included single lines at times. Besides which, the DVD is 200 minutes long. You couldn't fit much else on.
> Do you really, hand on heart, not feel annoyed at the inclusion of 'Food Featurette'?
I like it. Honest.
Posted by Ian Symes at November 3, 2003 01:45 AM
As I've said, we should inject a little dose of realism into our expectations of DVDs. Anyway, Ian is allowed to like it, regardless of what M thinks should or shouldn't be there.
Posted by Tanya Jones at November 3, 2003 09:54 AM
26 minutes doesn't seem that surprising for a three-hour series to me - how many more scenes would actually have been cut?
Posted by Simon at November 3, 2003 11:42 AM
The only thing that gtes my goat is the little things like an unmatching spine and the decision to change the text size on the spine. It just looks messy now.
Posted by Cappsy at November 3, 2003 12:59 PM
I haven't been home yet so don't know if it's arrived, but has anyone else here received their DVD from RDSUK?
Posted by Bob the Skutter at November 3, 2003 01:49 PM
I'm going out to buy it now.
Curse you to the tip of the highest mountain, Symes.
Posted by Darrell Jones at November 3, 2003 01:54 PM
RDSUK appears to be total wank.
Posted by Cappsy at November 3, 2003 04:02 PM
Alternatively, it could be affected by the postal strike. Calling it wank is a bit groundless really.
Posted by Darrell Jones at November 3, 2003 04:19 PM
I'm about to put it in the DVD player, but first...
A tip for the sticker on the front - stick it on the front of Blackadder's Christmas Carol for a sarcastic giggle.
Posted by Darrell Jones at November 3, 2003 04:28 PM
>So, you're saying that I'm lying about my opinions.
No, I didn't mean it to come across like that. I was just surprsied, that's all. If you like it, fair enough.
When I say unused footage, I don't just mean proper, stand-alone deleted scenes - I mean any kind of production footage, of which there must be hours and hours. It reminds me - there was a Doctor Who DVD last year that featured half an hour of extremely poor-quality rushes footage from one scene - possibly the most esoteric extra you could imagine, but included on the disc because thousands of Who fans (gloriously unrealistic in their demands) would write furious letters in green ink otherwise. Does Red Dwarf not have a hardcore fanbase of this kind?
Anyway, I think Red Dwarf III is a fine disc. I'm just disappointed they didn't include out-takes from the making of the sticker.
I'm still interested in this BBFC question though. What about all those old Hammer horror film which are reclassified from old X certificates to 15s and PGs? Why would Marooned be any different?
Posted by M at November 3, 2003 04:45 PM
Cut and pasted from a link on an old G&T comments page:
There are a few BBFC policies to bear in mind here (all of which are up and running now and, we hope, consistently applied). Basically if a work has been classified since 1st July 1994 (the date on which the category system was last amended to include a '12' on video) then the category last awarded to the work cannot be amended whatever happens. However, if the work was classified before 1st July 1994 it is possible for us to consider amending the category (if it is no longer "reasonable and defensible") only if the submitted version is somehow different to the previous version (eg a longer version, different ratio etc). The constraint that the work must be somehow materially 'different' to the previous version stems from the Video Recordings Act which states that, once a certificate has been awarded to a particular video work, it CANNOT be amended under any circumstances. In order for a work to receive a different classification (that was classified pre-1994) it must be a different version for the purposes of the VRA (widescreen, uncut, extended version, shortened version, differently panned and scanned, etc).
Posted by Simon at November 3, 2003 05:19 PM
On the subject of RDSUK not delivering, I suppose it's a little early to judge but Play had no problems.
As for the lack of 'rushes', it might be nice to mack that a feature for one series, but you'll need a nother disk to allow for a worthwhile amount. Seeing Mel Bibby talk about his Alien inspiration was more than enough for me to wet myself!
As for the re-classification. Most of those old films has extra scenes put in to allow the reclassification. Also, i assume a lot had little documentaries tagged on the beginning or end, again, to allow the reclassification.
Posted by Cappsy at November 3, 2003 05:26 PM
Full marks to Simon - there is a cut-off date for when things can be reclassified.
I do think extracts from the rushes would be great, either as stand-alone extras (see: H2G2), or used in the documentaries to illustrate things or cover edits.
Posted by Ian Symes at November 3, 2003 06:06 PM
Excellently completist review, Ian, as always. Extras look nice too; I may have to buy this disc when it gets cheaper.
I still think they could comfortably fit a full studio tape on though. Not the complete rushes, including pre-recorded, location and model footage, but the full forty/fifty minutes filmed in front of an audience. Cut out the 'Backwards Forwards' daftness, tighter editing on the documentary, simplify a couple of menus, and voila! The entire studio recording of 'Polymorph' on the shelves of a million fans! And there's still room for the 'Food' featurette.
Posted by Squidy at November 3, 2003 07:40 PM
Wow, you should go into DVD production.
Posted by Cappsy at November 3, 2003 09:15 PM
I have still not received my copy of the DVD from RDSUK so I've gone out and bought mine from Wollies.
Posted by Paul Gannon at November 3, 2003 09:18 PM
RDSUK suck.
DYSWIDT?
Posted by Ian Symes at November 3, 2003 09:22 PM
DYSWIDT? eh?
Posted by Paul Gannon at November 3, 2003 09:24 PM
"Do you see what I did there?"
Posted by Ian Symes at November 3, 2003 09:25 PM
lol yeah
Posted by Paul Gannon at November 3, 2003 09:25 PM
yes, I had to get mine from Tesco's..The thing is if the order status is correct the DVD was not despatched till today..So any 'Postal Strike' excuses are infact Bollocks. when I pre-ordered
mine in July, the Blurb said get your copy on the release date...
Of-course it could be that the 'status' is behind
but quite frankly, I doubt it..
Posted by Cpt-D at November 3, 2003 09:30 PM
RDSUK have now dispatched my copy too! It was despatched at about half 6, so how on earth we were supposed to receive it today is beyond me!!! I can't wait till they read my snotty letter asking them to cancel my Series IV pre-order!
Went to Tesco myself and got the DVD. Watched the extras and I am most impressed, gonna pop in the episodes now :-)
Posted by Bob the Skutter at November 3, 2003 10:11 PM
'The complete Series III DVD is now available to pre-order for delivery to you on the actual day of release.'
Yep' that's the actual quote still on the on-line
shop....
I too have recieved the confirmation email saying it was despatched today.
The email ended, Please reply to this email if you have any questions.
A rather silly invitation on their part I think.
Posted by Cpt-D at November 3, 2003 10:55 PM
'The complete Series III DVD is now available to pre-order for delivery to you on the actual day of release.'
Yep' that's the actual quote still on the on-line
shop....
I too have recieved the confirmation email saying it was despatched today.
The email ended, Please reply to this email if you have any questions.
A rather silly invitation on their part I think.
Posted by Cpt-D at November 3, 2003 10:55 PM
I'm pacing myself, I don't want to rush through it. I've watched the first three normal episodes (as I haven't seen series 3 for years - so don't want to charge into the extras too soon) and it's even better than I remembered. I'm going to try and finish the eps tonight so I can get stuck into the extras tomorrow.
I didn't realise how familiar I was with the dialogue, though. I've just realised that Red Dwarf is one of those few shows which permanently transcribes itself into your brain, which not many shows do. For instance, I've watched One Foot much more than RD and yet I still don't get the same feeling of 'blimey, I didn't realise I knew this entire episode off by heart!' Watching Polymorph especially is effectively comedy karaoke, although that's down to the fact I used to own 'Six of the Best'.
I'd forgotten I liked the show so much as well! I can't wait for series 4, as that's one of my favourites. (For what it's worth, I'm not mad on 5, but I think 6 is absolutely fantastic).
I hope I have no cause to write a ranty article about the DVD, though. It would spoil the fun I'm having. I'm getting the feeling they've fixed everything I was moaning about anyway, so I hope that *is* the case.
Posted by Darrell Jones at November 4, 2003 12:02 AM
Let's hope, for your sake, you don't experience the authoring problems with disk 2.
Posted by Cappsy at November 4, 2003 12:26 AM
If I do, I will literally burst.
Posted by Darrell Jones at November 4, 2003 12:33 AM
> Hattie's DJ Diary (Traffic Cone) -
The good news is that I'm just about visible in the background of one of the shots!
Really?! So, whereabouts can we see you then?
Posted by Stephen R. Fletcher at November 4, 2003 09:13 AM
During the final fancy dress walkabout, I'm at the table behind them! My claim to fame, there.
Posted by Ian Symes at November 4, 2003 09:32 AM
I think my CRAP HQ Sheep, stole the show ;)
Posted by Cpt-D at November 4, 2003 09:37 AM
Oh cool, I'll look out for you then, Symes. You know, I never realised that that women sitting next to Robert Llewellyn was Chloe Annett until I saw her go on stage. Her hair's really changed. Isn't Hattie just lovely? ;-)
Posted by Stephen R. Fletcher at November 4, 2003 10:43 AM
Here's an idea: how about once the entire run of the series is released on DVD, BBC Worldwide create and release another two-DVD set entirely filled with bonus material that could have been on other discs but weren't, either due to space or oversight. Disc one could include: trailers; unused interviews; Red Dwarf Night idents; pre-Dwarf stand-up from the main cast (there must be loads of it about somewhere); trailers for or clips from 'I, Lovett', 'The Corner House', and even 'A Prince Among Men', considering the BBC own all the rights anyway; the Children In Need sketch; the Comic Relief 'Bohemian Rhapsody' thing; the 'Amnesty Big 3-0' ten-second message; the 'Smeg Ups/Outs' links; the Lister introduction to the 'Back To Reality' repeat; clips from or even full episodes of radio shows such as 'Cliche', 'Son Of Cliche', 'To Boldly Go', and the 'Loose Ends' 1987 Christmas special; all the stuff Ian mentions here - https://www.ganymede-titan.info/dvd/futureextras.php ; and a featurette of all the cast saying "SMEG!!" cut to the tune of 'Unbelievable' by EMF so that less interested fans have something to watch. And on disc two? Why, the entire rushes (that's studio, location, model, and FX) of 'Back To Reality' (or similar), showing how a typical episode of Red Dwarf is put together.
Seriously! Have the BBC any reason not to make this? Surely it would sell loads. Independent 'bonus' discs have been sold for 'The Prisoner' (R2) and 'Planet Of The Apes' (R1) and they both sold well, and so will this considering its rabid for extras fanbase. Everyone on this messageboard is such a completist they would buy the set for the spine picture alone. Ian: you have Andrew Ellard's email. Make a friendly suggestion.
Posted by Squidy at November 4, 2003 01:26 PM
I'm hoping BBC will eventually release the Smeg ups and Smeg outs tapes on DVD. I know we have the Smeg Ups sections on the current DVDs, but I'd still rather have them all together in one feature :-)
Posted by Bob the Skutter at November 4, 2003 02:39 PM
"(For what it's worth, I'm not mad on 5, but I think 6 is absolutely fantastic)"
I think you mean "absolutely fucking fantastic". I don't like to pick people up with regards to grammar and/or spelling that often, but sometimes my over-active "pedanticism" gland gets the better of me, and I am forced to amend.
"I'm hoping BBC will eventually release the Smeg ups and Smeg outs tapes on DVD. I know we have the Smeg Ups sections on the current DVDs, but I'd still rather have them all together in one feature :-)"
Well that is frankly stupid. Why pay for something twice like that? Personally I'd much rather have the outtakes alongside the appropriate series, and ditch the inbetween crooning, unless those parts end up on a special "special bonus features" bonus features stand-alone disc (or in a box-set) as advocated by our masterful Squidy (is that pronounced "squiddy" by the way? If so I may have to be pedantic later).
Right, I won that so I'm off to crush some bulbs. Enjoy!
Posted by Inconsequential Burden on Health (see me for more information) at November 4, 2003 04:35 PM
I think extras that were accidentally missed off previous releases (such as the 'Souper' out-take) should be stuck on future releases as easter eggs.
Oh, and Bodyswap's not very good, is it. Good job the other 5 are excellent.
Posted by Darrell Jones at November 4, 2003 04:40 PM
Body swap is wonderful. Rimmer get's a tad out of character but I think a large chunk of ideas are from the episode removed from Series I (the one in which Rimmer tries to steal bits of Lister) were used for Bodyswap. I really wanted to see that episode with the original soundtrack though. It would have been great. Ah well.
Posted by Cappsy at November 4, 2003 05:17 PM
Bodyswap is most probably in my Top 5 episodes.
Posted by Joey at November 4, 2003 05:34 PM
There are a couple of good scenes, and the premise is initially amusing, but the whole thing comes across as a bit gimmicky and one-note. I just find it quite repetitive, and the non-presence of a live audience completely wrecks the atmosphere.
LEGAL DISCLAIMER: In my opinion.
Posted by Darrell Jones at November 4, 2003 05:46 PM
Worst thing about Bodyswap is when Lister, lying on his back on Rimmer's bunk, clearly mouths the Liverpudlian "mootch" as Rimmer's voice says "much".
You see in real life that wouldn't happen.
Posted by Hopping Blindly from Stub to Stove at November 4, 2003 06:11 PM
Squidy's proposal would be good, but I'm hoping that at least some of those extras will be included on the proper discs. I can't see it happening, unless it's part of a box set, however.
Posted by Ian Symes at November 4, 2003 06:18 PM
"I think extras that were accidentally missed off previous releases (such as the 'Souper' out-take) should be stuck on future releases as easter eggs."
Rather than doing that, they should re-release series 1 in ten years' time and call it "The Souper Edition". It should be more expensive and feature the entire rushes for Norman Lovett's 1998 close-ups as well (him saying "Bing Bong" under several different types of gruelling condition would be fucking intriguing).
Meanwhile, how about seeing Tom Baker's Dr Who edited into one of the bunk scenes as part of a bonus featurette called "Several things that weren't in Red Dwarf"? They could easily do that nowadays, and the BBC own the rights for both shows don't they?
Posted by Announcing his arrival with a single toot of horn and a jammy handbreak turn, throwing mud into the air and mocking the crowd (for they are wearing stupid clothes) at November 4, 2003 06:39 PM
Inspired.
Posted by Cappsy at November 4, 2003 07:46 PM
I know this has already probably been mentioned but it has happened on my DVD aswell, when I am selecting the various options on Disc 2, I cannot move my arrow about as it keeps resetting the chapter when I press any direction. This means that I can only view them by actually pressing the number 1, or 2...etc... on my remote to select it. It is a quite annoying little bug that should not have been missed.
Posted by Birty2k at November 4, 2003 08:14 PM
It's a quite common fault, Birty, particularly with older players. It's shite, I know. Nobody from GNP has commented yet. It'll be interesting to see what happens.
Posted by Ian Symes at November 4, 2003 08:46 PM
I get the menu loop resetting, which is annoying, but I can select everything easily enough.
Posted by Darrell Jones at November 4, 2003 09:37 PM
>I think extras that were accidentally missed off previous releases (such as the 'Souper' out-take) should be stuck on future releases as easter eggs.
I know this is an old chesnut, but what do people on here think about Easter eggs? I always think they'd be quite good if there wasn't this thing called the internet, whereby everybody tells each other where to find them. Surely they become completely redundant once this happens? You might as well just list them on the menu.
Posted by M at November 4, 2003 11:47 PM
"...whereby everybody tells each other where to find them. Surely they become completely redundant once this happens?"
Personally I want to know where they are as I don't get pleasure looking for them. "Easter egg" is just another way of saying "bonus feature (unlisted)" as far as I'm concerned. Hunting needn't be a part of that. It's time I'd rather spend doing something else. I suppose it's a problem relevant to every kind of spoiler - if you don't want to know then you need to look away. But I don't feel the content or location of easter eggs are shoved in everyone's faces. People who want the information generally need to make a concerted effort. Plus the location of easter eggs aren't the sort of thing you can pick up easily in a conversation and not forget (unlike when somebody unexpectedly reveals the end of a film you haven't seen) - you usually need to write them down if you want to learn them.
Anybody who's interested - this site is okay: www.dvdeastereggs.com
Posted by Mr Anderson at November 5, 2003 12:00 AM
Ian, Andrew has requested the problematic DVD players to be listed ina thread he started on The Official WebBoard. Anyone with that problem should do this.
Posted by Cappsy at November 5, 2003 03:28 PM
My older one's a Dansai DVD 852.
Posted by Joey at November 5, 2003 05:57 PM
I agree with Mr. Anderson. We do list details of Easter Eggs, but label them as spoilers. That way, if people want to see them straight away, they can get our info. However, if people want to find them for themselves, they can ignore it.
Posted by Ian Symes at November 5, 2003 06:09 PM
Thus I win.
Posted by Mr Anderson at November 5, 2003 09:08 PM
I like this guy.
Posted by Stephen R. Fletcher at November 6, 2003 01:00 AM
so do I!
Posted by The prowler at November 8, 2003 08:09 AM
He's putting Symes in his place there. :-P
Posted by Stephen R. Fletcher at November 11, 2003 09:03 AM
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