BBC-2 40th Anniversary
BBC-2 is 40 on the 20th of April. So, what better way to commemorate this, than by... starting off with a photograph of Ricky Gervais dancing. Really sums up 40 years of the channel, doesn't it? Fucking stupid cunts.
But I'll get past the hate, because something has pleased me. Next week's Radio Twats contains a list of 40 classic BBC-2 shows to celebrate the occasion. Now, you can argue about the list all you want - but the nice thing is that Red Dwarf is in there. And it always pleases me when things like this happen; the show is recognised as being as good as it is, despite any number of snide "curry, lager and smeg" put-downs by the less intellectually rigorous members of the population.
On the evening of the anniversary itself, Happy Birthday BBC Two will be on between 8:00pm and 11:00pm, promising "a look back at the people and programmes that have made it what it is today", and also "featuring behind-the-scenes footage". Unfortunately it also includes "sketches from the Dead Ringers team", which I suspect will be what is termed excruciating. (Incidentally, on an unrelated note, remember the Mark Gatiss sketches for Doctor Who Night? They were quite good.) For more info see this Independent article; it looks like Dwarf will feature in the programme too. It'll be the highlight of the programme, clearly.
Incidentally, I really hope we shall also see glimpses of the recently discovered BBC 2 Aborted Launch Night. A great shame they haven't scheduled all of it later on in the night, actually...
Comments
Well it's good to see someone remembers Red Dwarf; the usually good Jaci Stephen did a piece in one of the Saturday papers' magazines about the history of BBC2, and despite dwelling on comedy (and calling The Office the jewel in BBC2's crown) didn't mention the Dwarf once.
And those Mark Gatiss Doctor Who sketches were brilliant. "Where have you brought me to this time, old girl?" Nobody else think they should have cast *him* as the new Doctor?
Posted by Seb Patrick at April 13, 2004 09:57 AM
No, but at least he's writing.
Posted by Cappsy at April 13, 2004 11:43 AM
Totally unrelated, but you know the news about the extended scene in Emohawk? It is, as you probably know, included in 'Scenes From The Dwarf'. Last time I looked on Amazon.co.uk there was still one fo sale used. I got one last week. Very good it is too. Don't know if you've all got this, bu definitely worth it if you haven't. Quick.
Posted by Thomas at April 13, 2004 01:43 PM
Get on amazon.co.uk now for 'Scenes From The Dwarf' including the very good extended scene from Emohawk. Was one used one left last time I looked. Got mine last week.
Posted by Thomas at April 13, 2004 01:47 PM
Never seen THAT before.
Posted by Cappsy at April 13, 2004 03:42 PM
Unless, of course, it's one of the 'Soup' books.
Posted by Cappsy at April 13, 2004 03:46 PM
I don't think this has ever been stocked in bookshops. I've never seen it anyway, and I only heard about it very briefly in passing a few years ago.
I couldn't see the point of it, but as there are untransmitted scenes in it it's become more attractive...
Posted by Darrell Jones at April 13, 2004 03:57 PM
I have ordered one and I'm reserving any excitment until I see it.
Posted by Cappsy at April 13, 2004 04:13 PM
Scenes of the Dwarf = THE RAREST DWARF BOOK IN THE UNIVERSE. Apart from 'The Last Human', of course.
BTW, this article is completely the wrong way round. It should have started with the actual BBC TWO proggy news, and then mentioned the RT stuff. What a cunt.
Posted by John Hoare at April 13, 2004 04:52 PM
Oh, and I'm irritated that it didn't click with me that Python first aired on 1, as well. Fucking stupid RT fuckers.
Posted by John Hoare at April 13, 2004 05:40 PM
Well it must be rare as I;ve never heard of the thing. I'm chuffed I've got myself a copy!
And is Last Human really rare?
Posted by Cappsy at April 13, 2004 05:49 PM
'Last Human' isn't rare at all. 'The Last Human' is.
Posted by John Hoare at April 13, 2004 05:51 PM
I'm lazy. The odd 'The' is often sacrificed to improve my efficiency and save a bit of time that I could be spending eating something.
Posted by Cappsy at April 13, 2004 07:29 PM
I remember a fascinating article in The Smegazine where Rob and Doug were interviewed about the "soon to be released novel 'The Last Human". Apparently, it begins on the "very next day" after the events of BTL - already showing a marked difference to both Last Human and Backwards.
Anyway, this "new" book...Interesting... Expecting an article on G+T or The White Hole soonish. Please.
And to return to the actual article : check out ceefax page 125 : "Red Dwarf (1988) : Intergalactic sitcom loved by sci-fi geeks...".
Posted by Pete Martin at April 13, 2004 10:50 PM
Indeed, please do an article on it, whoever may have a copy.
Posted by Austin Ross at April 13, 2004 10:55 PM
It's not new. It was released in the US only (I think) in the mid-nineties. It's rare as fuck.
Posted by Ian Symes at April 13, 2004 11:30 PM
And i'm getting it in a few days. Do you G+T boys have a copy already?
Posted by Cappsy at April 13, 2004 11:40 PM
Nope. Gah!
Posted by Ian Symes at April 14, 2004 12:27 AM
There's still two more left. Buy it man. For God's sake, think of the children!
Posted by Cappsy at April 14, 2004 12:52 AM
> And to return to the actual article : check out ceefax page 125 : "Red Dwarf (1988) : Intergalactic sitcom loved by sci-fi geeks...".
AND ABOUT SIX MILLION OTHERS, OF COURSE.
I read a review of Dwarf the other day (can't find it now; it's somewhere on the net) which said that RD didn't have that great viewing figures over here, and how it stretched to 8 series he didn't know. Sigh.
Posted by John Hoare at April 14, 2004 04:25 PM
Whoa, whoa, whoa, you're telling me "Scenes From The Dwarf" is incredibly RARE?
I've had this book for smegging ages. A friend gave it to me a year or so ago because she'd seen it in a shop (not sure if she got it new or saw it in a charity shop, mind) and knew what a big Dwarf fan I was (being a not inconsiderate fan of the show herself).
It's a tiny little thing, only retailing at 60p (clearly not US-only, then), as part of Penguin's "60s" series. It was first published in 1996, and *thumbs through copy* has the following scenes :
- The "What's My Fruit" scene from "Camille"
- Rimmer going gradually insane in "Quarantine" (runs from the boys' arrival back on the ship to the "With. Out. Oxygen" bit)
- The Silicon Heaven discussion from "The Last Day"
- Rimmer discussing haircut length and the backwards Enforcement Vehicle from "Emohawk" (my knowledge of this episode is a bit fuzzy, so I'm not sure what dialogue from this scene isn't in the final cut)
- The Young Lister scene from "Timeslides"
- The Rimmer-Nirvana pre-and-post-coitus scene from "Holoship" (with extended stuff, as it was in "Son of Soup", which I think was published after this)
- The section of "Kryten" between just after Lister's getting-ready and them taking off with Kryten
- The opening segment of "Out Of Time", up to "Someone else tell him. I've got gussets to scrub."
Helpfully (cos hey, I'm like that), I've taken pics of the front and back cover and (probably illegally) transcribed G&N's introduction :
http://users.ox.ac.uk/~grey0107/dwarf/scenes.html
(although, since the introduction is dated September 95, I get the feeling that if either of the two actually did write it, it was probably just Doug)
Posted by Seb Patrick at April 15, 2004 12:56 AM
I can't believe that Fawlty Towers was a BBC 2 sitcom. Is that correct or is it just included for the fuck of it? Also, how can Newsnight be one of BBC Two's greatest shows? It's just the bullshit BBC once more. Losing faith in the bastards after Britain's 'Best' Sitcom. Just heard them say yesterday 'at 8 o'clock, Britain's favourite sitcom, Only Fools And Horses'. That is EXACTLY the reason why they did that stupid show, to repeat Fools and Cunts forever and ever. The only consolation is that Dwarf came fairly high in the list.
Posted by overmydeadbody at April 15, 2004 07:13 AM
Fawlty Towers was a BBC2 show, yes.
Although Monty Python was only on BBC2 for its last six episodes, the previous *thirty-nine* being on BBC1...
Actually, I think the second German special was transmitted on 2 as well, but I'm not 100% sure.
Posted by Darrell Jones at April 15, 2004 11:36 AM
Seb, you are excellent.
The timeline around that period is very confused:
1993 - Primoridal Soup - Rob and Doug
1993 - Red Dwarf VI - Rob and Doug
1994 - Smeg Ups - Doug only
1995 - Last Human - Doug only
1996 - Smeg Outs - Doug only
1996 - Backwards - Rob only
1996 - Son of Soup - Rob only
1997 - Six of the Best - Rob and Doug!
So gawd knows where the partnership was in 1995...
Posted by John Hoare at April 15, 2004 03:52 PM
For all we know the Six of the Best interview may have been in cold storage for ages. It could have been recorded as early as 1993!
Posted by Darrell Jones at April 15, 2004 05:52 PM
Possibly. Somehow, 1993 doesn't feel right, mind you - I could well imagine 95 or 96, but 93 feels too early. But then, by 95/96, they'd split. Of course, they might have split and then made up a couple of times.
I should probably try and find out properly, rather than guessing.
Posted by John Hoare at April 15, 2004 08:01 PM
1995 would be my guess I think. It fits in with everything else better.
Posted by Darrell Jones at April 15, 2004 08:06 PM
Except the fact it doesn't (Smeg Ups).
Hmm, this is very confusing. I think 'certain things lying in storage for ages' has to be the only way of explaining the oddness.
Posted by Darrell Jones at April 15, 2004 08:11 PM
I'm placing money on the split being sometime in late 1993 (after VI was completed in the Spring)/ early 1994.
Last Human (which came out in April 95) was quite probably a total re-write of "The Last Human".
The split obviously occurred as "The Last Human" neared completed as it looked destined for a release in early 1994.
Posted by Pete Martin at April 15, 2004 08:19 PM
Right. From the Paul Alexander interview on TOS:
"I got involved with GNP [Grant Naylor Productions] before I got involved with Red Dwarf. The reason was that Doug and Rob had a very funny ITV sitcom on the air, The 10%ers, about a theatrical agency. A second series of it had been commissioned but they'd stopped writing together, so Doug was investigating using other writers on it and I was one of those lucky other writers."
Now:
http://www.phill.co.uk/comedy/ten/list.html
1st series middle of 94; 2nd series middle of 96. That narrows it *slightly*. I suspect it wasn't just a sudden thing; they had a few "discussions" and just decided to do less and less with each other.
Posted by John Hoare at April 15, 2004 08:20 PM
Oh, and just because they've stopped working together doesn't mean they're not prepared to discuss the creation of the series for a BBC funded CD.
Six of the Best was probably produced in mid/late 1996. Discussion about VII being conspicuous by its absence.
Posted by Pete Martin at April 15, 2004 08:22 PM
Pete: You think that 'The Last Human' was nearly completed? I must say I hadn't even thought about it - I'd just assumed that hardly anything had been done on it, apart from a few ideas. I could well be completely wrong, of course.
Posted by John Hoare at April 15, 2004 08:22 PM
> Oh, and just because they've stopped working together doesn't mean they're not prepared to discuss the creation of the series for a BBC funded CD.
I thought this as well; but they seem *so* friendly with each other, and it doesn't seem faked. Wheras by all accounts now, Rob and Doug hardly speak to each other.
Like I said, it must just have been a gradual split. Someone has to just SIT DOWN WITH THEM AND FORCE OUT THE GORY DETAILS.
Posted by John Hoare at April 15, 2004 08:24 PM
I find it quite hard to believe that, in all the years since then, Dwarf fandom has never managed to find out exactly what happened between them. I suppose it's quite reassuring that some things can still remain private even when there are as many nosy rabid fans about.
Then again... I'm a nosy rabid fan, and I want to know what happened!
Posted by Seb Patrick at April 15, 2004 08:34 PM
"Wheras by all accounts now, Rob and Doug hardly speak to each other."
I really didn't know that. I just always assumed it was a simply professional choice rather than personal.
I'll try and dig out that interview about "The Last Human" from The Smegazine and do a transcription. Not entirely sure where my collection is currently stashed, but if anyone else has a few issues lying about, check Vol 2, Issue 1 or 2. The main focus of the article is series 6, but there's a short piece on the "new book".
Penguin were definitely beginning to publicise the book when it was scrapped because there were lots of posters knocking about with "The Last Human" written in bones. They definitely weren't fan knock-offs either.
Posted by Pete Martin at April 15, 2004 08:39 PM
> I really didn't know that. I just always assumed it was a simply professional choice rather than personal.
Perhaps I'd best add a disclaimer: this is always what I've understood from the general feeling about the whole thing. I may well be totally wrong; I hope I am. I've got no insider knowledge, sadly. However, I'm pretty sure that Rob has said in one interview that he no longer has much contact.
I remember seeing some of the publicity stuff somewhere about 'The Last Human', but I just assumed that was Penguin getting ahead of themselves. Or Rob+Doug falling behind, of course. Could be another Douglas Adams situation...
Posted by John Hoare at April 15, 2004 08:45 PM
In the Red Dwarf VIII scriptbook (surely an essential purchase), Doug talks about how it being a case of the BBC expecting Red Dwarf VII and Rob no longer being a part of GNP.
Perhaps there's a bit of resentment that Rob buggered off and left him with sole custody. And maybe Rob feels a bit guilty in return.
Ah, conjecture. Don't you just love it?
Here's a question, though. If Rob is no longer a part of GNP, and Red Dwarf is a registered trademark of GNP, how can Backwards be considered a "proper Red Dwarf book"?
Not much of a question, admittably.
Posted by Pete Martin at April 15, 2004 08:52 PM
The way Rob seemed in that radio interview a while ago it made it seem really personal. He was positively vitriolic in his condemnation of the last two series, not something he'd say if he was at all friends with Doug anymore.
Posted by Darrell Jones at April 15, 2004 09:34 PM
I'd forgotten about that. That felt really nasty. Not really NASTY nasty from Rob (although yes, he didn't mince his words) - but just very uncomfortable and wrong...
Posted by John Hoare at April 15, 2004 09:38 PM
Back on topic for just a brief second, here is how the RT describes Red Dwarf in the BBC-2 40 years article:
"The long-running and under-rated sci-fi sitcom gave the English language the term "smeghead" and saw two of its episodes postponed during the first Gulf War because of their anti-militaristic sentiments."
a) The term smeg is not what defines Red Dwarf. Will people get over this?
b) The Gulf war fact hardly sums up the series, but I suppose it's better than yet another description of Lister as a slob and the last human alive. However, 'Dimension Jump' is by no means anti-militaristic. I don't think even the BBC at the time tried to argue that.
As for "under-rated", I suppose it depends who you're talking about...
Seeing the article specifically mention that Python first aired on BBC 2 in 1969 in actual print was most amusing. I can't wait for their apology on that one. Crappy, CRAPPY journalism. Not even we are that bad.
Posted by John Hoare at April 15, 2004 09:54 PM
The TOS update says that Rob Grant will be a main contributor for Red Dwarf's segment, along with Robert Llewellyn and Chris Barrie. Excellent. Perhaps Grant will finally give the definitive explanation.
Posted by Austin Ross at April 16, 2004 01:46 PM
I meant to ask, by the way... how much have you folks been paying for the "Scenes..." book from Amazon?
Posted by Seb Patrick at April 16, 2004 02:42 PM
Couple of quid.
Posted by Thomas at April 18, 2004 12:22 PM
Just got it this weekend. It's a jolly dinky littl thing and great to dip into for a random quoting spree. They is some deleted scnes there too but I'm too lazy to see if they have already been published in a 'Soup' book.
Posted by Cappsy at April 18, 2004 10:40 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/tv_and_radio/3629569.stm
"40 facts about BBC2"
Dwarf gets one mention (the fact that Alan Rickman and Alfred Molina were originally cast in the lead roles... which is only half true, isn't it? I thought Rickman merely expressed an interest, and wasn't it Rimmer that he wanted to play?)
The Kumars at No. 42, meanwhile, gets two items. Two items out of 40. That's how important the sodding Kumars at No. fucking 42 is.
Posted by Seb Patrick at April 19, 2004 12:34 PM
It isn't true at all. It says that they were cast as the lead roles, which they weren't. Fucking cretins. Still, at least there's no mention of Monty Python in this one.
Posted by Ian Symes at April 19, 2004 12:41 PM
I thought Alfred Molina was originally cast as Rimmer (Doug Naylor says so on one of the DVDs), but left after a mutual realisation that it wasn't right for him (he kept asking things like when Rimmer would stop being a hologram, and stuff).
Posted by Seb Patrick at April 19, 2004 01:00 PM
That was during casting, was it not?
Posted by Ian Symes at April 19, 2004 01:57 PM
Well that answers my question over at NOTBBC.
I thought that was utterly wrong. It's pretty shoddy really, considering the correct information about the casting IS ON A BBC DVD!!!!
Posted by Cappsy at April 19, 2004 02:01 PM
Doug : "Paul brought Fred Molina in, he did a very good reading, erm, so, he got the part there and then. Chris got his rejection letter. Then we realised... who's gonna play Lister? And then, it just wasn't working, Fred's head wasn't really around it..."
So I suppose that's open to interpretation. It seems to me that he was initially cast, but not for very long.
Alan Rickman, however, was certainly never cast. It mentions that he read the script and loved it, and expressed an interest in playing Lister (not Rimmer, as I'd thought), but nothing ever came of it.
Posted by Seb Patrick at April 19, 2004 03:03 PM
The trailer for the 'Happy Birthday BBC Two' show features, presumably by accident, a virtually subliminal, split-second clip of the untransmitted Aberdoon Stook Hoose sketch from the pre-TX edit of the Little Britain TV pilot (i.e. the actual pilot). Just one tiny shot of the elf-eared hotelier playing his flute at more or less the end of the trailer, if you're looking out for it.
The fact this has happened is great.
Posted by Darrell Jones at April 19, 2004 10:30 PM
LOTS OF SERIES V, I WONDER WHY THAT IS!!!!!11
Rob Grant was great but they puncuated most of his comments with Series VIII clips. For fucks sake.
Oh, and no remastered. In summary: satisfied.
Posted by Cappsy at April 20, 2004 09:32 PM
No smeg, either, which was good. Not too keen on the use of VIII, but never mind. Full report tomorrow!
Posted by Ian Symes at April 20, 2004 11:12 PM
Missed the bugger; serves me right for watching Most Haunted (original fan, not a sellout I thankyou).
Posted by Joey at April 21, 2004 08:09 AM
The fact they used several series 5 clips is nothing to do with anything.
The series 8 clips they did use were good gags. The "missing persons" bit in particular was worthy of inclusion.
Most comedy shows were completely glossed over, because DRAMA AND DOCARAMENNARIES are more important, obviously. And Gardener's World is a much more influential programme than The Day Today or Blackadder.
Posted by Darrell Jones at April 21, 2004 04:04 PM
Oi, leave Gardners World alone, you bully. You can't deny it has been a very successful program on BBC2 and certainly the first of it's kind certainly and worthy of inclusion in the program. Blackadder and The Day Today should have been included though. And it made me laugh when jane Root revealed why she hates comedy so much. beacsue it's the 'most risky' type of show to make. Coward.
And they've never used Series V clips before now. it's always been some god aweful re-mastered stuff. Even though I'm pleased they used mainly V clips i'm sure it has something to do with November.
Posted by Cappsy at April 21, 2004 06:10 PM
Nope. If it had anything to do with November, it would have been less subtle than that.
As for "Gardner's World" - the sound of that I like! A sketch show featuring the excellent Tony Gardner (of My Parents Are Aliens/Armando Iannucci Shows)? Wahey!
Posted by Darrell Jones at April 21, 2004 06:24 PM
I've only just seen this bit!!
I didn't think you'd done anything about about this yet, so I sent a transcript of the three minutes that Red Dwarf were on the programme last night to Ian. Don't know if he'll use it, mind...
Posted by si at April 21, 2004 06:34 PM
Oh, fucking hell. I've just spent ages transcribed it myself. WHERE WERE YOU WHEN I NEEDED YOU, SI?
Posted by Ian Symes at April 21, 2004 07:48 PM
Transcribing it, probably. I *did* get it to you as soon as I realised you hadn't put a transcript up yourself. Come on, be honest, whose is better?
He'll've probably put all the um's and erm's in(which I wrote down originally, but left out of the version I sent to Ian to keep it readable), just to make it look more complete. Hurumph. Bastard.
Posted by si at April 21, 2004 08:49 PM
I apologise. He's a nice chap, that Symes.
Posted by si at April 21, 2004 10:40 PM
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